=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= News about printers =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Printers that may or may not print hidden tracking dots: http://www.eff.org/Privacy/printers/list.php ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Newsgroups: comp.periphs.printers, comp.os.linux.hardware NNTP-Posting-Host: smeagol.ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2004 04:13:58 GMT References: Message-ID: Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Date: 9 Aug 2004 04:13:58 GMT From: Michael Black Subject: Re: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink-refill or cartridge costs Elmo P. Shagnasty" (elmop@nastydesigns.com) writes: > > In article , > > "Bill Haught" wrote: > > > > Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, > > Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in > > interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge > > costs > > Boy, you want it all, don't you? > > In case you haven't noticed, the entire inkjet printer industry is based > on the fact that these things are throw-away devices. They design them > to fail, and expect them to fail, so as to keep people buying new ones > out of the factory. > > So durability is determined: they're not. Period. Let's not forget that consumers want that low end stuff. And once the price gets low enough, there has to be design cutting. I paid $500 for my first printer, a Radio Shack dot matrix printer in the fall of 1982. It was terribly slow, had lousy print quality, and was pretty much the cheapest I could get a new printer for in Canada back then. My next printer was a Smith Corona daisy wheel, for $399 in the summer of 1984. I needed something that would print good quality, because the dot matrix sure wouldn't qualify. Real slow, and I had to roll in each sheet of paper just like in my previous typewriter. And, it too was about the cheapest I could get a new daisy wheel printer at the time. In 1989, I replaced both printers with a $300 dot matrix printer, that had "near letter quality" that indeed was good enough that I could get rid of the really slow daisy wheel. By this point, dot matrix printers had come of age, and I have no idea if something cheaper could be had. When I switched to a Macintosh in 1994, I picked up a used Imagewriter, for about thirty dollars. Could have been as old as ten years old at that, but still worked fine. Might have used it up to 2001, but I found a cheap Imagewriter II for about the same price a few years later, so I switched because the later model was supposed to be faster. Both printers could still run, had I not retired them. My first and only inkjet printer, I got in the spring of 2001. I paid $20 used, but this was one that would have originally sold for hundreds of dollars, because that's what printers used to sell for. But I wasn't happy about the ink useage (or cost), and even the fact that the printout smeared when wet, so I only used it through one refill. I snagged my first laser printer, an old [Texas Instruments], for $25 that fall. Printed out a few thousand pages with the toner in it, then retired it when the toner ran out. It was old, but also not too common, and I'd gotten my money's worth. Replaced it with an HP Laserjet 4P, for fifteen dollars at a Rotary Club sale. Had to shake the toner cartridge to get printout, but that lasted at least 500 pages. The printer itself had a mere 3000 pages on its counter. Again, it sold for hundreds of dollars when new. I'll be keeping this one. This is the same issue as with "winmodems". Consumers want low prices, and then they complain because there are tradeoffs. The tradeoffs come not because the companies want to cheat the consumer, the tradeoffs come because consumers want things cheap. As my history shows, printers traditionally cost good money, and you got something that would last. People no longer want to spend that money, so the only way to give them a printer that issues pretty pictures is to make a product that has faults, that may fail early because it's not as solidly built as a similar product made some years back. On the other hand, on those cheap printers is vastly better than printers I spent far more for decades ago. People print out high- quality graphics like they make toast, when even a few years back we'd only print such things on the rare occasion because it just took too long, and th results weren't so great. Michael ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Newsgroups: comp.periphs.printers, comp.os.linux.hardware, comp.os.linux.help, comp.os.linux.questions NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.156.199.244 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:59:51 EDT References: Message-ID: Organization: Bell Sympatico Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:51:54 -0400 From: John-Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Haught wrote: > Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, > Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in > interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge > costs If you want PostScript, durability, and other high-end features, be prepared to pay for them. Most of the commonly available printers are disposable, as others have said. However, HP does offer a high-end "Business Inkjet" line that offers PCL in all the models, and PostScript in the more expensive ones. The HP Business InkJet 1100 starts at an MSRP of $200 and offers PCL built-in. For $500 you can get the model 2300 with PostScript. Ink isn't terribly cheap at $34 per colour (four colours, estimated 1500 pages per refill). However, these models will be *much* more durable than the home units. Check out any of the "Business InkJet" models (not the DeskJets) listed on HP's site: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-236251-236261.html ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Newsgroups: comp.periphs.printers, comp.os.linux.hardware NNTP-Posting-Host: 3eb30168.authen.yellow.readfreenews.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 09 Aug 2004 18:33:10 CDT References: Message-ID: <411809b5$0$5042$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:36:33 -0700 From: Larry Blanchard Subject: Re: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs In article , et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says... > I paid $500 for my first printer, a Radio Shack dot matrix printer > in the fall of 1982. It was terribly slow, had lousy print quality, > and was pretty much the cheapest I could get a new printer for in > Canada back then. You tweaked my aging memory :-). My first printer was a "Base2" dot- matrix that I bought about 1978 or so. It had serial, parallel, and IEEE interfaces. With connectors for those plus the power cord, there was very little sheet metal left on the back of it. I think it was about $700, but it could have been less. And I've still got the first graphics-capable CRT that came out for less than $1000 - $995 to be exact. Just can't bear to throw it away :-). -- Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs? ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Newsgroups: comp.periphs.printers, comp.os.linux.hardware References: Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:36:03 -0500 From: Don Allen Subject: Re: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink-refill or cartridge costs Yes, and sadly, practically all consumers want the cheapest price point on everything related to consumer electronics, not only computers and peripherals. Prior to computers becoming a mainstream and commodity product, prices were high for everything. Remember the days of a Seagate ST-225 20MB hard drive at a price point of $300??? Without a doubt, Microsoft certainly has its faults. But, without the gang from Redmond, WA, we would all still be paying ultra-premium prices for everything related to computing. With the commodity mentality of computer marketing today, low-end products are everywhere, especially in the ink-jet printer market. I, too, remember paying high prices for such products as an Okidata 82a or 182a 9-pin dot matrix printer. My first laser was a HP LaserJet IIIp (circa 1993) with a cost of nearly $1500. Only 4ppm, but built like a tank and still functioning today. I came from the electronics field, and the name HP meant first-class quality in the test equipment market. The biggest marketing mistake HP ever made was to enter the consumer computer market using the HP logo. After years of success in that market, they had to change their original name for the high-quality test equipment market to Agilent Technologies, due to the quality perception of their consumer computer line. You can still buy high-quality industrial-strength products that meet the original poster's basic technical requirements, but you do have to pay the price. A high-quality color laser printer is the best solution, but be prepared to pay multi-thousand dollar pricing for it. However, it will outlast a myriad of cheap inkjets, and be ultimately cheaper to it will outlast a myriad of cheap inkjets, and be ultimately cheaper to operate. Linux is a fine operating system, but it really needs to get its act together regarding up-to-date hardware compatibility and drivers. Much of Linux development tends to target European standards, and most consumer computer users here in the USA don't use Postscript-based printers--rather PCL-based printers. Up until recently, some Linux distros did not include PCL drivers for popular HP LaserJets! And, if you're using a 3Com/USR controller-based PCI internal dial-up modem, good luck on finding a proper driver under Linux. I've used practically every distro of Linux since its rollout, and although Linux is certainly improving with every version, it's not ready for "prime time" for the average consumer computer user--close, but not close enough. For the hobbyist, or computer geek, yes it's a fine and stable OS. But, for someone who just wants to play a DVD, output photos to a photo printer, or easily install updates, Linux has some work to do before its accepted as a viable alternative to WinXP. Don ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Newsgroups: comp.periphs.printers, comp.os.linux.hardware References: Message-ID: Organization: alabaster raster masters Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:57:49 -0500 From: clifto Subject: Re: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs Don Allen wrote: > Remember the days of a > Seagate ST-225 20MB hard drive at a price point of $300??? I don't remember them being any cheaper than $500 until clearance time. I paid $600 for my first (with included controller, though). $30,000 per gigabyte. These days it's $0.75. -- To his numbed, buttock-shifting listeners, the great sonorous self-regarding orotund bromidic banality of Senator Kerry and his multitude of nuances is proof of how much more serious he--and therefore they--are. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/08/01/do0102.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/08/01/ixop.html ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 1996 World Wide Web home for The Printer Works http://www.printerworks.com/index.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Surplus spare parts for a variety of printer types: http://www.hitechsurplus.com/comput/prntparts.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=